Camshaft Postion Intermittent Failure

[Popeye304]

I apologize for posting this here, where is the alternative vehicle section? I could of swore I had access to that. Jon, Dave, please move this thread if you feel it is out of line.

Some of you are aware that I have been in the process of repairing my daughter's 2004 Dodge Intrepid; failed timing chain. A thread can be fond here: http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273206. The engine is all back together... please read this, I need your opinions:

Went out this morning, the car didn't start right up. After the second try, I took the transmission out of park to neutral and back into park, started right up. At this point, I'm not sure if the neutral safety is intermittent. Anyway...

After I let the engine warm up, I slowly increased engine speed to 2400 RPMs; the motor decreases its RPM then back up to 2400 RMPs... cycles back and forth. Rev limiter? Limp mode?

After allowing the motor to idle, ~750 RPM for a half hour, I took the car for a spin outside the neighborhood. I slowly accelerated to 45 MPH, she is running great! Well, except I still have not been able to clear the P0016 (Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation - Bank 1 Sensor A) and P0344 ODB II codes (P0344 Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Intermittent). Remember, I have replaced the camshaft position sensor and I also replaced the crankshaft position sensor (physically damaged).

What are your thoughts regarding the codes (I'm thinking timing may be off too much for the computer to correct... even though we're confident that the chain plated links are installed and position correctly) and what about the inconsistent engine starts (remember, new battery and starter).

Your assistance is appreciated.

[Popeye304]

WTF? No thoughts at all. I'm not getting shit of the Dodge site either. Am I saying something wrong here?

[durangojeeper]

Well, I haven't responded because I have no F-ing clue! Can't speak for the rest here.

[Popeye304]

I understand, I'm just a little frustrated with this one.

as of today...

Ok, I pulled everything off and yes, the crankshaft sprocket was not aligned properly.

1. So I pulled the tensioner, popped the right (Passenger) camshaft sprocket.

2. Verified my secondary chains were properly aligned per the service manual (SM), perfect.

3. Positioned the crankshaft sprocket per the SM (dot, plated link, oil pump mark), perfect. Did not move the crank after this point.

4. Positioned the left side camshaft double-plated chain link (properly on sprocket w/dot in between) and positioned it per SM.

5. Positioned the right side camshaft sprocket and plated link (dot in between link). Using the 3/8" ratchet, flipped the camshaft and positioned it so that I could bolt on the camshaft sprocket (the plated links on secondary chain were positioned per SM).

6. Clear the tensioner of oil, compressed it, and put it back in. Then, popped the tensioner.

7. Checked each timing mark, all in it's place per the service manual.

8. cycled the crankshaft, over and over again, (I wish I would have counted the amount of cycles) but everything did line up PERFECTLY per the SM.

9. Put everything back together. Cleared all fault codes. Engine was difficult to start. Once started, idled nicely. Checked fault codes, P0016 and P0344. I know the engine is timed correctly and the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors were replaced.

WTF? What do I do now?

[Popeye304]

I've had a little time to think about this... I'm going to open up this one more time. I know, that the engine was timed correctly this time. If I open it up again and it isn't timed, then the tensioner is bad... $160 to replace that. If it is timed, I have no idea what the problem could be. Any ideas?

[durangojeeper]

I'll catch up to a buddy tonight who is a former Jeep Tech. and run it by him. He's been out of it for awhile, so, don't hold your breath. But, can't hurt, right?

[durangojeeper]

Dammit. I owe you an appology. I honestly just forgot to ask. We spent the evening rattleing an idea around and nothing came up to jog my memory.

I'll catch him again before the week is out.

Sorry.

[durangojeeper]

Popeye304,

Caught up to friend tonight. Unfortunately, as I say, it's been something like 10 years since he was directly in the biz working on Mopar. The only thing that caem to mind is...is it possible you've pinched any of the wires? I know it's kind of like that "is there any gas in it?" question, but, he says you'd be suprised at how often it actually happens when reassembling things.

Otherwise, without spending some time with it, and a tech manual (again, it's been awhile for him) the only other thing he can think of is your computer could be on the fritz.

I wish I could be of more help. I hope you're doing better on the Dodge talk forum.

[Popeye304]

I appreciate the help. That is what I'll be doing this Saturday, verifying the electrical connections, cabling, and one particular ground I'm intersted in.

Really do appreciate the feedback. Hopefully, I'll have favorable posting on Saturday.

[Popeye304]

So I have been messing with this motor for almost a month! I recently took it to the Tuffy mechanic here in Apopka, my neighbor recommended this place. First impressions, I like the owner and service manager; they seem genuine and honest.

They have verified that my timing of the engine was correct after a complete compression check.

They wanted to test the motion transducers (that's what we called them in the Navy), the camshaft and crankshaft sensors... they are known to fail right out of the box. Well, they're good.

Next they wanted to read the pulses coming from the crankshaft sensor (flexwheel or what normal people call flywheel) and the camshaft sensor but their oscilloscope was broke; I volunteered to bring them one from work.

The result? The crankshaft sensor reading was good. The camshaft sensorwas not correct. Greg believes that the camshaft sprocket is not the correct part for this motor or not properly manufactured. I bought the parts from an eBay distributor, you know these parts were made in China.

I'll have more tomorrow, I hope.

[pcguy]

How did this turn out Lou?

I have been burned before on chinese parts, not a good idea in most cases. Unless of course the original part was chinese and you just didn't know that.... Beware of american made parts for chinese gadgets as well I guess LOL.....

[JonnyRo]

Wow, interesting thread.

[Popeye304]

My bust guys... the Dodge s up and running. I finally called it quits. I took it to Tuffy here in Apopka. They were scratching their head as well for a couple of days... they took an o'scope and read the pulses of The crankshaft and the camshaft sensors.. .. the camshaft sensor was not displaying what The proper signal. Turns out that the camshaft sprocket was an incorrect part... the other parts in The timing chain kit were correct, not the camshaft sprocket.

The lesson here... closely examine your new parts against your original parts... especially if you buy your Parts on eBay!!!!!
SOB! !!!

[pcguy]

glad to hear there was a solution for it.

[JonnyRo]

Wild man, glad it worked out.

Let me know if you ever need help wrenching. I'm always happy to lend a hand.